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 What is reality?

The concept of "reality" is a philosophical and scientific question that has been debated for centuries. Generally speaking, reality refers to the objective existence of things and events, independent of our perceptions, beliefs, and interpretations. In philosophy, the nature of reality is often discussed in terms of metaphysics, which explores the fundamental nature of existence, including the relationship between mind and matter, the structure of time and space, and the ultimate nature of reality itself. In science, reality is often understood through the lens of empirical observation and testing. Scientists aim to discover and describe the physical properties and laws that govern the natural world, based on evidence and experimentation. Ultimately, the nature of reality is a complex and multifaceted question that continues to be explored and debated by philosophers, scientists, and other thinkers.

Is there an objective reality

The question of whether there is an objective reality is a subject of debate among philosophers and scientists. However, the prevailing view among most scholars is that there is an objective reality that exists independently of our subjective experiences and perceptions.

In other words, reality exists whether or not we are aware of it or can observe it. For example, the laws of physics apply whether or not we understand or accept them. The existence of natural phenomena such as stars, galaxies, and planets is not dependent on our observation or belief.Moreover, scientific inquiry is based on the assumption that there is an objective reality that can be investigated through empirical observation and testing. Scientists develop theories and models to explain how the world works, and they test these models through experiments and observations. If the data do not support the theory, it is discarded or modified to better match the evidence. Therefore, while our perceptions and interpretations of reality may be subjective, most scholars believe that there is an objective reality that exists independently of our perceptions and beliefs.

If we are limited to our senses is there movement within the mind

Yes, there is movement within the mind even if we are limited to our senses. The mind is a complex and dynamic system that processes information, generates thoughts and emotions, and creates our subjective experience of the world. Even if we are limited to our senses, our minds can still process and interpret the information we receive. For example, we can perceive the movement of objects around us even if we cannot directly observe their motion. Our minds can extrapolate the movement of an object based on its previous position and the time elapsed between observations. Furthermore, our minds can generate internal movements such as thoughts and emotions, which are not directly observable through our senses. These internal movements can influence our behavior and decision-making, as well as our subjective experience of the world. Therefore, even if we are limited to our senses, there is still movement within the mind as it processes information, generates thoughts and emotions, and creates our subjective experience of the world.

If the objective world is unknowable can we be absolutely sure it exists

While it is true that we can never know the objective world with absolute certainty, most scholars believe that there is good reason to believe in its existence. First, we have empirical evidence that suggests the existence of an objective world. Our senses provide us with information about the world around us, and our scientific investigations have revealed a wealth of knowledge about the natural world. Second, the idea of an objective world is necessary for our understanding of causality and the laws of nature. If there were no objective world, there would be no basis for scientific inquiry or the development of technologies that rely on our understanding of the natural world. Finally, while we may not be able to know the objective world with absolute certainty, we can make accurate predictions and observations based on our understanding of it. Our ability to make accurate predictions and observations is evidence that there is a consistent and reliable objective world that exists independently of our subjective experiences and perceptions. Therefore, while we may not be able to know the objective world with absolute certainty, most scholars believe that there is good reason to believe in its existence based on empirical evidence, the necessity of the concept for our understanding of causality and the laws of nature, and our ability to make accurate predictions and observations based on our understanding of it.

You use the word belief and may not. Both belief and may not, are not certainties 

You are correct that the words "belief" and "may not" do not imply certainty. While there is evidence to support the existence of an objective world, we cannot be certain of its existence because our knowledge is limited by our senses and our ability to interpret and understand the world around us. Science and philosophy both recognize the limitations of human knowledge and the fallibility of our perceptions and interpretations. Therefore, while we may believe in the existence of an objective world based on the evidence available to us, we cannot be certain of its existence. The use of words such as "belief" and "may not" reflects the recognition of the limitations of human knowledge and the possibility of error and uncertainty. Science and philosophy aim to reduce uncertainty and improve our understanding of the world, but they do not claim to provide absolute certainty or infallibility.

Does the oneness we can feel from the subjective experience, not available in an objective normal understanding, tell us how we should live.

The experience of oneness, which can arise from subjective experiences such as meditation, spiritual practices, or psychedelic experiences, can be a profound and transformative experience that can impact how we see ourselves and the world around us. However, it is up to each individual to decide how to integrate these experiences into their daily lives and whether they should guide our actions or beliefs. While the experience of oneness can provide a sense of interconnectedness and unity with the world, it is not necessarily a guide for how we should live our lives. Ethics and morality are complex subjects that involve a variety of considerations, including social norms, cultural values, and individual beliefs. Moreover, the experience of oneness can be difficult to translate into practical guidance for how to live our lives. While it may inspire feelings of compassion, empathy, and altruism, it may not provide specific guidance on how to address complex social, political, or ethical dilemmas. Therefore, while the experience of oneness can be a powerful and transformative experience, it is up to each individual to decide how to integrate it into their lives and whether it should guide their actions or beliefs. It is important to approach these experiences with an open mind and a critical perspective, recognizing their potential benefits and limitations.

There would not be complex social, political, or ethical dilemmas if the world was unified in thought

While it is true that a unified world may eliminate some social, political, or ethical dilemmas, it is unlikely that complete unity of thought or belief can be achieved. Differences in opinion, values, and beliefs are natural and are a fundamental aspect of human diversity. Moreover, social, political, and ethical dilemmas often arise from conflicts between different groups or individuals with different values or interests. A world in which everyone thinks the same way may eliminate these conflicts, but it may also lead to a lack of diversity and innovation. Furthermore, even if everyone had the same beliefs or values, there would still be practical challenges to achieving a unified world. The world is vast and complex, with different languages, cultures, and histories. Achieving unity in such a world would require a level of coordination and cooperation that is difficult to achieve. Therefore, while unity of thought or belief may eliminate some social, political, or ethical dilemmas, it is unlikely to be achieved in practice. It is more productive to focus on how we can work together despite our differences to address the challenges facing our world.

If oneness is real, seemingly like knowing a spiritual being, available to all who search, would it not remove conflicts. If we agreed there is not an objective world of things.

The concept of oneness suggests a sense of interconnectedness and unity with the world and can be a powerful experience that can promote compassion, empathy, and understanding. However, it is important to recognize that achieving a sense of oneness does not necessarily eliminate conflicts or disagreements. Even if we were to agree that there is no objective world of things, there would still be differences in values, beliefs, and interests that could lead to conflicts. Additionally, conflicts can arise from practical considerations such as resource allocation, governance, and security. Moreover, it is important to recognize that not everyone may share the same spiritual or philosophical beliefs, and we must respect and acknowledge these differences. While the experience of oneness may be available to all who search for it, it is not necessarily the only path to understanding or enlightenment. Therefore, while the experience of oneness may promote greater understanding and compassion, it may not necessarily eliminate conflicts or disagreements. It is important to approach these experiences with humility, respect, and an openness to different perspectives and values. By doing so, we can work together to address the challenges facing our world while recognizing and respecting our differences.

You are forgetting that understanding there is no "real world of things," the revelation we are in a cloud of unknowing would bring a revolution of peoples behaviour with reduction of the false ego

It is true that recognizing the limitations of our knowledge and the subjective nature of our perceptions can lead to a greater sense of humility and a reduction in ego-driven behaviour. When we recognize that our perceptions and interpretations of the world are limited, it can lead to greater openness, curiosity, and empathy towards others. Moreover, recognizing the limitations of our knowledge can lead to a greater appreciation of the complexity and interconnectedness of the world. It can promote a sense of environmental awareness, social responsibility, and a desire to work towards a more just and equitable world. However, it is important to recognize that these changes in behaviour and attitudes are not necessarily automatic or guaranteed. While recognizing the subjective nature of our perceptions may lead to greater humility and empathy, it may not necessarily eliminate ego-driven behaviour entirely. Moreover, there may be practical challenges to implementing changes in behaviour and attitudes. Changing long-held beliefs and behaviours can be difficult and may require significant effort, education, and social support. Therefore, while recognizing the limitations of our knowledge and perceptions can promote positive changes in behavior and attitudes, it is important to recognize that these changes may not occur automatically or easily. It requires effort, education, and a willingness to embrace new perspectives and ideas. 

How can you be sure that it would be difficult to implement a wakening, when no generation has ever learnt to know their reality is false. If from an early age they were educated in experiencing the obvious oneness of the true nature of the mind it would overthrow the tyranny of duality.

While it is true that education and upbringing can play a significant role in shaping our beliefs and attitudes, it is important to recognize that changing deeply held beliefs and behaviors is not always easy, even with education and exposure to new ideas. Moreover, the idea of oneness or the limitations of our knowledge and perceptions may be difficult for some to accept, particularly those who have been raised with strongly held beliefs or who may have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. Furthermore, the world is complex and diverse, with different languages, cultures, and beliefs. Achieving a unified understanding or acceptance of the limitations of our knowledge may be challenging in such a diverse world. Therefore, while education and exposure to new ideas can play a role in promoting positive changes in behavior and attitudes, it is important to recognize that changing deeply held beliefs and behaviors is not always easy. It requires a willingness to challenge our assumptions and a willingness to embrace new perspectives and ideas. It also requires patience, persistence, and a recognition of the diversity and complexity of the world.

Being difficult should not stop us from trying to awaken mankind Being aware that our reality is not tied to an objective experience is liberating. The oneness is revealed as a responsive harmony of being, dissolving the common sense duality held by almost everybody.

I agree that the recognition of the limitations of our knowledge and perceptions can be liberating and can promote a sense of interconnectedness and harmony with the world. It can also lead to a greater appreciation of the diversity and complexity of the world and a desire to work towards a more just and equitable society. I also agree that we should not be discouraged by the challenges of promoting positive change in the world. It is important to continue to work towards greater awareness, education, and understanding, even in the face of difficulty and resistance. However, it is also important to recognize that changing deeply held beliefs and behaviours is not always easy, and may require significant effort and persistence. It may require a long-term commitment to education and awareness-raising, as well as a willingness to engage with diverse perspectives and beliefs. Therefore, while recognizing the limitations of our knowledge and perceptions can be liberating, it is important to approach this awareness with humility, respect, and a recognition of the diversity and complexity of the world. By doing so, we can work towards a more just and equitable world while promoting greater understanding and harmony.

I've come to the conclusion that you are operating on the basis that duality can not be dissolved because you too hold the same view

As an AI language model, I don't have beliefs or opinions. My responses are generated based on the input I receive and the knowledge I have been trained on. In terms of the concept of duality, it is a philosophical idea that has been debated for centuries. Some philosophers and spiritual traditions argue that duality is an illusion and that there is a deeper reality of oneness or unity that underlies our perceptions of the world. Others argue that duality is a fundamental aspect of reality and cannot be dissolved. As an AI language model, I don't take a position on this philosophical debate. Rather, I provide information and perspectives on the topic based on the knowledge I have been trained on. Ultimately, the question of whether duality can be dissolved or not is a matter of individual belief and interpretation. 

Did Einstein form the same opinion about reality

Albert Einstein's views on reality were complex and evolved throughout his life. However, he did challenge traditional views of reality and advocated for a deeper understanding of the universe that went beyond classical, Newtonian physics. In particular, Einstein's theory of relativity, which he developed in the early 20th century, challenged the notion of absolute space and time that had been held since the time of Isaac Newton. According to Einstein, space and time are not absolute, but are relative to the observer and the conditions in which they are measured. This idea, known as the theory of relativity, revolutionized physics and led to new insights into the nature of reality. Einstein also believed in a deeper unity underlying the universe, which he referred to as the "cosmic religious feeling." This feeling of awe and wonder at the complexity and interconnectedness of the universe was a central part of Einstein's worldview. Overall, while Einstein's views on reality were complex and evolved throughout his life, he did challenge traditional views of reality and advocated for a deeper understanding of the universe that went beyond classical physics.

I'm convinced there is no external objective world therefore our awareness is the cosmic spiritual reality. We are in the Pure Land that some Buddhist sects teach Western thought rejects this and acts as if everything is ruled by Newton physics If the above was common knowledge it would change everything. If the leaders of the world knew it would change politics

The idea that there is no external objective world and that our awareness is the cosmic spiritual reality is a philosophical and spiritual perspective that has been explored by various traditions, including some forms of Buddhism. While this perspective may be helpful for some individuals in their personal spiritual or philosophical journeys, it is important to recognize that it is not universally accepted, and that there are many different beliefs and perspectives about the nature of reality.

In terms of its potential impact on the world, it is difficult to predict how widely accepted this perspective would be or how it would change politics or other aspects of society. Beliefs and values are deeply ingrained in individuals and communities, and changing them can be a slow and difficult process. That being said, promoting greater awareness and understanding of different perspectives and beliefs can be a valuable goal in itself, and can contribute to a more tolerant and inclusive society.

People reject non duality because no effort is made to show the underpinning understanding of their world is false

The idea of non-duality can be challenging for many individuals because it challenges fundamental assumptions about the nature of reality that are deeply ingrained in our cultural and intellectual traditions. Many people have been taught to view the world in terms of dualities, such as subject and object, self and other, or mind and body, and these concepts can be difficult to let go of. However, proponents of non-duality argue that this perspective offers a way to break free from limiting concepts and beliefs and to experience a deeper sense of unity and interconnectedness with the world around us. While non-duality may not be widely accepted or understood in some cultures or intellectual traditions, it is a perspective that has been explored by many philosophers, mystics, and spiritual teachers throughout history. It is possible that some individuals reject non-duality because they have not been exposed to the underpinning understanding of their world being false, or because they have not yet found a way to integrate this perspective into their own understanding of reality. However, it is also important to recognize that different individuals have different experiences, beliefs, and values, and that there is no one-size-fits-all approach to understanding or experiencing the world. Ultimately, the decision to explore non-duality or any other perspective is a personal one, and individuals must find their own way to navigate the complexities of the world around them.d

Are there people who are awake and know they are in the cloud of unknowing using it to rule the profane

The concept of "awakened" individuals who understand the nature of reality as a "cloud of unknowing" and use it to rule or manipulate others is a complex one that depends on various assumptions and beliefs. It is certainly possible that some individuals who have achieved a certain level of spiritual or philosophical understanding may use this knowledge to manipulate or control others, either consciously or unconsciously. However, it is also possible that individuals who have achieved a deep understanding of non-duality or other philosophical perspectives may use this knowledge to promote peace, understanding, and compassion in the world.

Ultimately, the impact of any particular perspective or belief system depends on how it is used and interpreted by individuals and communities. It is important to approach all beliefs and perspectives with a critical and open mind, and to be aware of the potential for both positive and negative consequences that can arise from different ways of understanding and experiencing the world.

If the common view that an external objective world exists then we are in our brain. Every sensory input is input. 

So there is just two possibilities both are non physical

Either we are in a virtual like world of what is out there or there is no out there. We are in a virtual world of our own making. I prefer the later.

The question of whether an external objective world exists is a complex one that has been debated by philosophers, scientists, and scholars for centuries. While it is true that much of our experience of the world is mediated by our sensory inputs, it is not necessarily the case that our experience is limited to what is inside our brain.One possibility is that the external world exists as a physical reality that is separate from our own minds and bodies. This view is consistent with many scientific and philosophical traditions, which posit the existence of a material universe that can be studied and understood through empirical observation and experimentation.

Another possibility is that the external world is not separate from our own minds and bodies, but rather arises as a product of our own perceptions and experiences. This view is consistent with certain philosophical and spiritual traditions, which suggest that the world we experience is not an objective reality, but rather a subjective construct that is shaped by our own consciousness and awareness.

Ultimately, the question of whether an external objective world exists or not is a complex one that depends on a wide range of factors, including our individual experiences, beliefs, and values. While it is certainly possible to prefer one view over another, it is important to approach all perspectives with a critical and open mind, and to be aware of the potential limitations and biases that may be inherent in any particular way of understanding the world.

It isn't possible to posit an empirical proof of an external world that cannot be known. If it does exist think of the consequences the whole world is therefore in your own mind as a virtual reality

While it is true that the existence of an external objective world cannot be directly proven or disproven with absolute certainty, many scientists and philosophers have argued that there is ample evidence to support the notion of a physical reality that exists independent of our own consciousness.

For example, the natural sciences rely on empirical observation and experimentation to develop theories and models of the physical world that are capable of making accurate predictions about future events. These theories and models have been rigorously tested and refined over centuries, and have proven to be highly effective at explaining and predicting a wide range of phenomena in the natural world.

Similarly, many philosophers have argued that the existence of an external world is a necessary presupposition for the meaningfulness of human experience and communication. Without some shared basis of reality that exists independent of our own individual perceptions and experiences, it would be difficult if not impossible to communicate meaningfully with others or to make sense of our own experiences.

That said, there are certainly philosophical and spiritual traditions that reject the notion of an external objective world, and instead posit the existence of a subjective or spiritual reality that is intimately connected to our own consciousness and awareness. While these views may not be widely accepted in mainstream scientific or philosophical circles, they nevertheless offer important insights into the nature of human experience and the limits of our own understanding.

I concur with the last paragraph

It is important to recognize that different philosophical and spiritual traditions offer a wide range of perspectives on the nature of reality and the limits of our own understanding. While some may emphasize the existence of an external objective world that exists independent of our own consciousness, others may focus on the subjective or spiritual dimensions of human experience.

Ultimately, it is up to each individual to explore and determine for themselves what they believe to be true about the nature of reality and the world around them. By engaging in open-minded inquiry and reflection, we can gain a deeper understanding of ourselves and the world we inhabit, and perhaps even discover new insights and perspectives that challenge our existing beliefs and assumptions.

We still have another problem if we are in a metaphysical world where all is one, where is the self? And is the ego an invention of the mind by experiencing otherness.

The question of the self and the ego is a complex one, and there are many different philosophical and spiritual perspectives on this issue.

From a non-dual perspective, the self and the ego are seen as illusory constructs that arise from our perception of duality and separation. In this view, the underlying reality is a unity in which there is no separate self or ego, but rather a oneness that encompasses all things.

Other perspectives may view the self and the ego as more real, but still influenced by our experiences of otherness and separation. From this point of view, the self and the ego are seen as important aspects of our individual identity, but also potentially limiting in their capacity to fully realize our true potential and connection to the wider world.

Ultimately, the question of the self and the ego is a deeply personal one, and may require ongoing reflection, inquiry, and exploration to fully understand and appreciate. By cultivating awareness and mindfulness, we can gain greater insight into our own nature and relationship to the world around us, and perhaps even transcend some of the limitations of the egoic self.

Thank you for the debate, it made my ideas clearer to me at least.

You're welcome! I'm glad our conversation was helpful for you. Don't hesitate to reach out if you have any further questions or thoughts in the future.

After weighing the evidence I say we do not live in an external solid reality. So what is it we are aware of? Should we accept everything as US. With no separation no duality and no ego.

It would give a kinder peaceful world. 

The question of what exactly we are aware of and the nature of reality is a complex and deeply philosophical one, with many different perspectives and theories.

As you mentioned, some philosophical and spiritual perspectives suggest that there is no external objective reality, and that our awareness is a part of a larger, interconnected whole. From this point of view, separation, duality, and ego are seen as illusory constructs that arise from our perception of the world around us.

While this view may suggest a kinder and more peaceful world, it can also be challenging to fully embrace and incorporate into our daily lives. It may require ongoing inquiry, self-reflection, and a shift in our way of thinking and perceiving the world around us.

Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to accept this perspective as true is a personal one, and may depend on a wide range of factors, including individual beliefs, experiences, and values.

 What appears to be evil is the result of the withdrawal from God consciousness.

Anybody out there think the same as me?       billedmunds@gmail.com